{The List-} Culture

[Kramerman]

people become attached to their culture, because it is their way of life. The french above would see the vikings as barbarians, and the vikings would see the french as honorless sissies. neither culture is "better".

there has to be some sort of formula / algorithm for cultures to "measure up", rather than a flat number.

MILITARISM IS A CULTURE. countless civilizations have their cultures centered on warfare, and the honor resulting from it. I don't see why i'm penalized for building archers rather than temples.

i agree entirely, tho i cna understand temples giving more culture

note: bold letters are for no exact reason... rather it had a purpose but i forgot this wasnt the OT forum and people here are actually non-trolling nice people... so i wont be a jerk and make a cruel joke cause no one here deserves it

[Optimizer]

Instead of cultural flipping, cities with strong culture should convert citizens in neighbouring foreign cities to the other nationality.

[Shogun Gunner]

Originally posted by Optimizer
Instead of cultural flipping, cities with strong culture should convert citizens in neighbouring foreign cities to the other nationality.

Why not your idea (which is good) and the retain culture flipping WITH civil war possibility when a civ's capital is sacked (or perhaps other factors could additionally lead to civil war)...

more is gooder

[Fosse]

Why not your idea (which is good) and retain the cluture flipping with civil war...

I think going with culture flipping again in any form is a poor idea, as the model is too simplistic and as so soundly hated (in implementations) in Civ 3 that they gave us the option to turn it off.

More sublte an understandable methds of simulating this are the way to go, and almost everything written in this thread is a much more solid proposal than maintiaining any semblance of the "flipping."

[anteos]

I'd like the style of play to influence culture. You could have still have the various headings, like warfare, builder etc. And you style of play gains points under these headings. And when they reach a certain level, the whole civilisation benefits.

For example, if you like to macromange with worker units, then these units become more proficient as time goes by.

[Tiberius]

Re: {The List-} Culture

Originally posted by Rasputin
3.0 Fix culture!

I like culture as it is. No offense, but I don't see why it would need a fix.

Keep the ideas coming. Maybe I'll see something great that will change my mind. Until then, my opinion is: Don't change culture!

[Optimizer]

The Nationality concept from Civ 3 is good, but it should have more aspects than just creating unhappiness when you are at war with their countrymen. Some other ideas, which have been mentioned before:

* If you have founded a city far away from your capital, the citizens would create a new nationality (like most American countries).

* Foreign diplomats would have the possibility to incite strikes, riots and guerrilla wars among your foreign citizens, especially among their fellow-countrymen.

* Military units created in cities with foreign citizens might become of foreign nationality, and might not be as patriotic.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Uber KruX
MILITARISM IS A CULTURE. countless civilizations have their cultures centered on warfare, and the honor resulting from it. I don't see why i'm penalized for building archers rather than temples.

I suggested this when Civ 3 first came out. Militaristic civilizations should garner culture from the barracks and forts they build. Temples, I think, should always grant culture, because you can be praying to the War god. Of course, then you need to figure out how to make religious civilizations worth it.

[Kuciwalker]

If so, then Scientific civs should gain culture for Libraries and Universities (etc), Expansionist should get a base culture bonus per city, Industrious should get culture for Factories and Power Plants, Seafaring should get culture for Harbors and Commercial Docks, and Agricultural should get culture for Granaries.

[Lorizael]

Aye.

[Lorizael]

Problem is, I also want culture to develop over time. Traits should be able to change. I think that should be the role of wonders. They would define a civilization. You could identify a culture by the milennias-old monuments that resided within it.

[Shogun Gunner]

Fosse, are people really against cultural flipping? I read in your post that you don't like it. I guess I don't see the idea of cultural flipping as diametrically opposed to the good suggestions in this thread such as a floating culture number (not absolute) and demographics in cities fluctuating depending on culture, or immigration/migrations.

Couldn't these smaller impact ideas be implemented with culture flipping. Maybe these ideas could contribute to a city flipping or not. Just because a city doesn't flip, wouldn't mean that the impact of these ideas wouldn't be present.

I guess I will conclude by saying that the concept of culture flipping isn't out of step with history.

[Kuciwalker]

I have an idea: how about you acquire the traits of the two areas you (proportionally) develop most? For example, if you build Libraries and Temples more than average (and more "more than average" than anything else), then you would become Scientific and Religious. At that point those buildings would start producing culture.

[Fosse]

Shogun: I don't know what consensus (if any) has been in this forum. But in the Civ 3 forums people have come down very critically on the idea of culture flipping.

Now, they could very well have been the minority, albeit a persuasive enough one to get the "optional culture flipping" added to expansion packs.

I agree with you that "flipping" is not necessarily exclusive with some other ideas, but I think that the current "flipping" model is clunky and too abstract to have a sense of fun.

And while the idea of people wanting to join other nations is not out of step with history, the complete inability for the leaders of those people to do anything at all to stop them is. Far more people have been prevented from such switches of allegiance than have ever successfully done so.

Culture was a great idea, and in the very broad strokes with which it was applied to Civ 3 it showed that much good can come out of a cultural model... but now it should be refined and removed from the almost total abstraction that led to such problems as culture bombing, flipping (as-is), and the ability to take land from a rival by building a city close to the border.

[Stefu]

* If you have founded a city far away from your capital, the citizens would create a new nationality (like most American countries).

I'm not sure about this, but there's one thing I'd think was obvious: If you get a city out of a goody hut, or if you get a settler out of a goody hut and establish a city with it, that new city (and all the other cities which are established from there on with settlers from that city, naturally) should have a different nationality.